Curse

Thevil King · Apr 24, 2010, 12:55 AM // 00:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elnino

He did:http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Feedb...to_HB_-_bumped

uh that was not me but i do agree with most of whats said there

Lycan Nibbler · Apr 24, 2010, 01:39 AM // 01:39

I laugh so much when I see the "didnt have the resources to balance HB etc" yet, they had the resources to design, structure and implement CDX???? Hmm seems to kill that argument pretty well.

I said time and again to anet, remove the ZQ or make the reward so small it was not worth the time vs reward except for the people who played it as a choice.. I am still not sure to this day why that couldnt have been a better solution to what we have now.

Even if builds were broken (I hated Sins and never played as one), there were still ways for people to have competitive games and it surely helped my skills having to "try" and micromanage 4 bars vs just mine.

Finally, since anet showed their hand at one of the conventions on the fixed card deck, they have wanted to use it - Im thinking to see how it would work in some form in GW2 as a guess? So we were made to be experimental guinea pigs.

Comparing a normal day in CDX vs a day in HB, I am definitely of teh opinion HB was more popular that the current option and HBs removal restricted the choices available in playing the game.

Elnino · Apr 24, 2010, 01:53 AM // 01:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thevil King

uh that was not me but i do agree with most of whats said there

Yea I know lol, i was just saying that he(the guy who made it) went into details.

Sorry for the confusion

Skyy High · Apr 24, 2010, 04:37 PM // 16:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lycan Nibbler

I laugh so much when I see the "didnt have the resources to balance HB etc" yet, they had the resources to design, structure and implement CDX???? Hmm seems to kill that argument pretty well.

They tried, again and again and again, for two years. It didn't work, no matter what they did to shadowsteps. Recall et al were absolutely killed for other areas, and they were still abused in HB. What else, besides removing those skills entirely, could have been done? That's why people say it was fundamentally imbalanced, because it's the sole arena where these skills were permanently meta-defining.

Like I said before, AB and Rollerbeetle are the only arenas where resigning gives you dishonor. The fact that this was the only 1v1 PvP arena opened up possibilities for abuse far more than other arenas. If they put in "/resign gives you dishonor", then people could just do "Red AFKs", because that would still have been faster than fighting it out for both parties involved. HB introduced more problems than any other single arena, because it was just so different from every other arena, so it was removed. It's not coming back, deal with it.

Missing HB · Apr 24, 2010, 04:55 PM // 16:55

I still do not get why it was removed and anyway , i would like to know why codex isnt removed aswell . They promised tourneys , and we're still waiting after six months ( that's too late now anyway , wont change the arena much ) .

Anyway , it was said it would be deleted before all ppl did use " red resign " and abuse the quest . And , if the real reason was about that arena is farmed , i suggest we delete HA and GvG too : both are anyway impossible to play at some hours , gvg title is synced thus quest easily farmed too , HA title is a joke to get by playing at some hours , thus having all 1v1 .

The point is it's nice to have an arena where you can play when you want , especially in a game dying more after each day ( regarding the " super 5th year birthday" , same than past years , and the super mesmer update coming .. zzz )

Thevil King · Apr 24, 2010, 05:29 PM // 17:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

They tried, again and again and again, for two years. It didn't work, no matter what they did to shadowsteps. Recall et al were absolutely killed for other areas, and they were still abused in HB. What else, besides removing those skills entirely, could have been done? That's why people say it was fundamentally imbalanced, because it's the sole arena where these skills were permanently meta-defining.

orly? as far as i can rember, these updates in these 2 yrs are almost entirely focused on balancing gvg and ha and little to no attention was given to hb. i can prove to you with a quote from linsey, that hb "was compounded by years without skill balances". even anet admits that it is their own fault, so i highly doubt what you are trying to say here is anywehre close to the truth. regarding long range shadowsteps, yes it has been abused in the middle to later period in hbs existence, but in the start people ran creative builds and tactics, and actually tried out new things, dgenerative play only came later when prospects of high rewards and prestige came along. imo these long range shadowsteps should not exist in the first place, because it overpowers any tactics involving movement in pvp. but given that hb recieved so little attention for these 2yrs, it has done fairly well. i mean srsly, can you imagine if anet didnt balance gvg and ha for 2yrs? what would happen then? problems in gvg and ha would be just as bad as in hb by the end of the 2yrs.

Quote:

Like I said before, AB and Rollerbeetle are the only arenas where resigning gives you dishonor. The fact that this was the only 1v1 PvP arena opened up possibilities for abuse far more than other arenas. If they put in "/resign gives you dishonor", then people could just do "Red AFKs", because that would still have been faster than fighting it out for both parties involved. HB introduced more problems than any other single arena, because it was just so different from every other arena, so it was removed. It's not coming back, deal with it.

yes hb was abused, theres no denying that. but you are srsly singling out hb for what is happening in the ENTIRE GAME, regardless of format. pve, ab, ra, ta, ha, gvg, anywhere in game you name it, it has been abused. people have always said that hb was the most abused, and the most fundementally flawed, and cite rr again and again. plz, remember that rr only happend AFTER ANET ANNOUNCED TO DELETE HB. seriously, this has been clarified time after time, yet hb haters continue to believe this was a legit argument. moreover, being different from other arena does NOTHING to justify its removal. if anything, being different is good, as there is more variety and more choices. most of the formats in game is heavily inspired by many other genres anyways. and yes we know its not coming back, we also know anets failure to replace it with a "better" format as promised, people deal with it by quitting the game cuz anet failed again and again and again. but just because hb was gone, does not mean hb haters can just dish out their fallacious arguments to troll hb.

coil · Apr 24, 2010, 06:00 PM // 18:00

does anyone even actually place codex besides the mass synchers?

the problem was not only neglect/laziness/incompetence/guildwars2hasDRAGONS!!! but the implementation of zaishen quests (free zkeys) & title points.

i'm curious if calls to remove codex will be taken seriously by anet. i mean, it's 1 less "different" format for them to worry about right?

ightgg · Apr 24, 2010, 06:41 PM // 18:41

I miss HB

Fluffy Kittens · Apr 24, 2010, 08:52 PM // 20:52

HB was only area which you could play alone and would depend 100% on solo players skill

BRING IT BACK!!!

Anyway GvG is full of abuse and it's not removed.. syncing, champ pts selling, free rating giving and other.
HA is full of abuse: 3 teams.. 1 team always helping friends, other gank from hate...

Noone wanted HB to be removed so bring it back!!11oneone

galbat0rixx · Apr 24, 2010, 11:15 PM // 23:15

The decision to remove HB altogether was, in all honesty, a bit lazy and defeatist. How hard would it have been to just add dishonour for resigns and make weak PvP versions if shadowstep skills, or even remove them from HB altogether.

That said, I think CDX was a great idea, but it just didn't turn out as good as it might have, but I suppose the general lack if players doesn't help.

But overall, I think they should have kept HB, it was one of the only things I felt I was playing for pure fun, as I am a "PvE noob"(please refrain from using that expression, it's so elitist, arrogant and frankly a bit sad).

Skye Marin · Apr 25, 2010, 12:25 AM // 00:25

HB was heavily abused with dice rolling and red resigns since it was created.

They could have corrected some things that were easier, like:
-Minimum of 3 wins in a row to win Zaishen Quest / Commander points
-Slow down morale points, a lot
-Prohibit shadow step skills from the game
-Heroes no longer are body blocked / frozen by Spirits and Pets
-Better rewards for higher ranked players
-smaller arenas to encourage fighting and reduce effectiveness of snare-only builds.

And then throw the Codex ruleset on top of it, and you have something that could be fun and not quite so exploited.

Right now, Codex is iffy because the player base isn't there. It takes hours to get even a small group together with an okay build, and even if you get into a streak, you might be kicked by the next skill change.

Either way, I think Anet made the right decision. Just wish I could get more people together and practice more.

Grj · Apr 25, 2010, 12:27 AM // 00:27

Anet have had more then enough trouble keeping GvG/HA balanced, it was obvious that HB support was going to be dropped shortly after nightfall like a rock and surprise surprise it was.

Now codex touted as the next best thing, will anet actually make the effort and make some updates to it or will it suffer the same fate as HB/TA as the playbase in codex dwindles to nothing.

oh wait....

slowerpoke · Apr 25, 2010, 12:27 AM // 00:27

Easier to remove than fix.

Lycan Nibbler · Apr 25, 2010, 12:33 AM // 00:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

They tried, again and again and again, for two years.

Exactly how many adjustments did they make specifically relating to HB? I content very few and if they had paid even the slightest attention to the threads in the HB section, then they would have got much closer. Look at it this way.. in CDX, they dont allow a few certain skills to be chosen , why couldnt they have done that for HB??? Thats the same amount of work that they did for CDX + none of teh other workload they had.

Or indeed implement only 1 of any profession per entry like CDX?

Quote:

It didn't work, no matter what they did to shadowsteps. Recall et al were absolutely killed for other areas, and they were still abused in HB. What else, besides removing those skills entirely, could have been done? That's why people say it was fundamentally imbalanced, because it's the sole arena where these skills were permanently meta-defining.

Didnt they do exactly this for CDX?? (Im going from memory so this fact might be incorrect)

Quote:

If they put in "/resign gives you dishonor", then people could just do "Red AFKs", because that would still have been faster than fighting it out for both parties involved. HB introduced more problems than any other single arena, because it was just so different from every other arena, so it was removed. It's not coming back, deal with it.

The fact it was different was its appeal, I dont want to do 4v4, 6v6 or 8v8 which is basically the same teaming up and epeen fest - I wanted something different. The problems were because it was ignored time and time again on the updates when ALL the other pvp areas got adjustments. RR or indeed Red AFK (which would have taken about 10 minutes a match anyway) would NEVER have been a problem with the ZQ removed/rewards vastly decreased.

Many things are introduced/removed in the game over the years, that does not stop us commenting about the changes and as such I am going to put my point across so you deal with that .

Elnino · Apr 25, 2010, 01:34 AM // 01:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by slowerpoke

Easier to remove than fix.

then I guess they should remove GvG too since it needs to be fixed.

Terrible Surgeon · Apr 25, 2010, 09:58 AM // 09:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by chaosincarnate87

because people were exploiting it to acquire zkeys and pump up their title.

Kind of like what has been going on with gvg over the past few years but even more so now. As far as im concerned Anet screwed a lot of people over by removing HB and listened to outsiders opinions on the arena rather than the people that actually liked and played HB opinions. Bunch of dumb stoned hippies ruining a game is what anet programmers are i tell you.

Paradise Lost · Apr 25, 2010, 11:31 AM // 11:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rezz Anna Nicole

HB was only area which you could play alone and would depend 100% on solo players skill

BRING IT BACK!!!

Anyway GvG is full of abuse and it's not removed.. syncing, champ pts selling, free rating giving and other.
HA is full of abuse: 3 teams.. 1 team always helping friends, other gank from hate...

Noone wanted HB to be removed so bring it back!!11oneone

This. 10x

Where else could you screw up and have nobody else to blame but yourself? I loved it. They really should remove GvG, as its even more broken than HB. But that will upset alot of people, oh wait anet don't care. Thats why they removed HB.

tealspikes · Apr 25, 2010, 04:34 PM // 16:34

At the very least they could have left unrated HB as an option. Who would abuse that?

Lord Sojar · Apr 25, 2010, 04:50 PM // 16:50

It was the worst edition to PvP in the history of the game, period. Getting rid of it was akin to curing cancer.

ousbique · Apr 25, 2010, 05:08 PM // 17:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elnino

then I guess they should remove GvG too since it needs to be fixed.

Actually they already did it since VoD was removed for a more stupid tie-breaker